salixbabylon | not-so-thinky thoughts

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not-so-thinky thoughts

1) i am a total contrary brat. give me a fandom, any fandom. one pairing will appeal to me the most. for some reason, one boy will keep being written as a bottom. very shortly, i will get super pissed off on his behalf. he's not a girl. he's not weak. stop making him cry, and goddamnit, let the man top every once in a while!

*grr*

so yeah. jensen on top - rec me, please.

2) we saw prince caspian today. i had *so* many naughty thoughts.

i'd feel badly about it, but really, why bother? i've always thought boys like that were so pretty, from when i was a little girl myself. i think it's ok if i still think that flavor of boyish beauty is lovely, even if i am old enough to be their mothers.

also, my husband laughs at me when i squee.

3) my brain is in such a writey mood, but not enough to actually, say, open MS Word. Just enough to play out little "what if" plotlines in my head.

also? tell my brain to stop with the Wincest, please. i keep telling it not to go there but it doesn't listen, like some unruly, deviant, horny teenager. "i can go there if i want to and you can't stop me so nyah." :P

i think i need to put my brain on probation until it behaves better.

4) also, my shift key isn't working very well. i'm not just trying to be some pretentious e.e. cummings wanker. feh.

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Prince Caspian is the boy of my pervy dreams.

And there ain't nothin' wrong with Wincest. Trust me.

I promised myself I wouldn't even read it, but then OOPS, I did. And as usual, my brain can't accept an idea without starting to write its own little variations. :P Bad brain. No ~~winchesters~~ cookies.

Prince Caspian is HOT, no matter how old you are. Anyone with eyes knows this. :)

See, I like Jensen as a bottom. But I like Jensen as a bottom, not as a girl. There's a difference. I don't mind him topping every once in awhile, but I just like the image in my head of the strength it's gotta take to hold him down and fuck him raw. Just because he's a bottom, doesn't mean he doesn't have strength. And it's that power push, both from his partner and from him, that I like the most. Which is probably why I like him more with Jeff than with Jared. Because while I recognize that Jared has the size to take him, he doesn't have the finesse (in my mind at least). He's younger, less worldly....just not yet enough for Jensen to give into.

And see, I tend to relate the most to Jensen, and that's how I see myself. I'm a bottom, a sub, a whatever...but my partner has to be able to put me in that position. My partner has to have the strength/power/ability to do it. Otherwise, I'm just uninterested.

Oooh...TMI? Oh well, already out there!! Heh heh!

mmmm a partner strong enough....

ooops 'scuse me, outside voice

*grins*

No, no!! I understand!

But see!! Someone can be a bottom without losing their sense of self! *nods*

eh. mostly I switch. The top strong enough, that I also trust enough, few. Far between. sigh.

But, let us never forget just who really holds the power in the scene. Something a lot of folks writing bottoms tend to forget.

A bottom is *not* weak, it takes a hell of a lot of personal strength to submit. I wish more writers would remember that, like Ms. Salix does.

Aww, you'll make me blush.

I wonder if part of the problem might be that so many people/writers are subs, and the *fantasy* of giving up control is so attractive, that in the absense of any hands-on experience or study of how to do bdsm in real life, they are just writing their *fantasy* of having no control.

I know the first few kinky fantasies i wrote were from the sub's POV and *wow* - so totally unclear about consent and safewords and whatnot. It's true that taking the time to explain all of those things *does* bring the reader out of the scene and the headspace...

Hmmm... Just thinking thinky thoughts... ;)

Or more succinctly - maybe the problem is that all of these people/writers are novice subs and lke all novice subs, they're really self-focused and have no perspective on what good bsdm should be like.

;)

A bit of both, I would imagine. I know for the whole, pure fantasy thing, that giving up all control can be very attractive, and the whole negotiation thing can be a drag. It can also be interesting. I mean, The Story of O doesn't exactly cover negotiating a scene and proper use of safe words, nor do any of Rice's Sleeping Beauty books. But, I've read a few that seemed to be trying to do a realistic job of portraying kink, and o holy fuck me somebody's gonna get hurt if they take this seriously.

On the other hand, the is a rather good Vigorli story with Orli as the top, that not only covers negotiation, but addresses ways things can go wrong when you don't communicate well, and often. "Boundaries" by

lostiawen. Everybody who wants to write kink should read it.

Hehehe - Losti and I were chatting online a lot during that period and bounced around several ideas while she was writing. She was a big influence on me. :)

I persanally think the challenge is in making consent and safety part of the fic, but not the focus. Just so paranoid people like me can relax and feel good about what follows. *g*

Exactly!! Oooh! Just right!

People write about sex and tops and bottoms and doms and subs and assume that things work certain ways. They assume that there is real pain and degradation involved. If any of these people just asked, there are a lot of people who'd be willing to help out and get them to understand how things work!

I don't know if you are interested, but I've been having a similar conversation over on my lj today. If you wanna check it out, it's over here: http://ladykatiewench.livejournal.com/687610.html

It actually started when I read yet another fic where, prior to the start of the story, Jensen had been raped. And I needed to express my displeasure at that. And it turned into a fun little chat!

Agreed - bottom =/= girl. It's the OOC non-manliness that bugs me most, not the who-is-being-penetrated. Not that the characters have to be super manly, but they have to be *themselves*.

And I just don't *get* the idea that he's really totally gay and oh so very pretty and always a subby bottom and all those awful stereotypes about what gay men are like. Jensen is NOT a twink. Certainly not anymore. He may have a deep inner life and be a delicate emotional being on the inside, but on the surface he comes across as being a fairly manly man, playing sports, drinking beer, dating girls, and not doing or being anything remotely effeminate.

(Not that there's anything wrong with being "feminine" but that's a whole other rant.)

Anyway. Maybe it's the OOC-ness I'm just getting so aggravated by. I *like* emotional men - I married one. But Jensen doesn't seem to wear his heart on his sleeve and I'm sick of reading fics where he does.

Also - it's that power push, both from his partner and from him, that I like the most. Which is probably why I like him more with Jeff. = I really need to get off my ass and write that little naughty ficlet I started in Toronto about Jeff and Jensen and the dog leash.

Edited 2008-06-09 18:02 (UTC)

I totally agree with you. That's something that really bothers me too, because I *do* like the sexual aspects of him bottoming, but I don't like the OOCness of it. I like Jensen when he's being his goofball self, but he's very much a *guy* goofball.

I really need to get off my ass and write that little naughty ficlet I started in Toronto about Jeff and Jensen and the dog leash.

Oh no!! You don't get to say stuff like that and just leave me hangin'! Yes, get off that ass and get to work!! Go!

See, I like Jensen as a bottom. But I like Jensen as a bottom, not as a girl. There's a difference.
(+story)
Exactly what I meant as well! :)

Don't know about myself, but I guess I'm not really a toppy person either... *thinks* Didn't really have a chance of finding out yet ;).

Edited 2008-06-11 20:41 (UTC)

uugh. My last laptop had severe keyboard issue, include an i key that didn't work, and a trick shift key. It is SUCH a pain.

Well, if your brain keeps putting you there, revel in it and maybe introduce some new players to ... move you along a bit.

It turned out just to be dog hair. LOTS of dog hair. It's shedding season. :P

Writing - we'll see. Don't I always go through this silly phase of trying to resist at first? What a waste of energy. ;)

he's not a girl. he's not weak. stop making him cry

WHen I read that I got MOST self-righteous for about three seconds and said, hey I'm not weak! And then I remembered that not two minutes before I was trying to do some chin-ups and FAILED. FAILED I SAY. But I totally get what you're saying... people still do that?!

I personally believe that a bottom is a position of power.

*tries to do more chin-ups*

You are totally right, and I was definitely participating in some stupid gender stereotyping in my comment. I hate when I do that without even realizing it, and thank you for calling me on it. I can only try to be better in the future when I am made aware that I'm still doing that thing I hate. :)

And yes, people still do that. And yes, being the bottom or submissive or the person-being-penetrated doesn't mean the person is powerless. But often it's written that way, as that boyman being all vulnerable and scared/hurt/uncertain. And I just wanna read them all excited about getting fucked and not feeling powerless at all. (And them being not so emotionally raw and out of character.)

I think I'll just have to go write some...

lol, I do it all the time too. I've been trying to stop myself from saying things like, "That is SO GAY," for outlandish or unattractive behaviour. It's such an ingrained thing, and all I can do is bite my tongue and keep trying.

But seriously, for the chin-ups? I did... half an inch. My brother and... boyfriend, I think he's my bf now, they did 10 IN A ROW. I was cursing all night. DAMN YOU MEN AND YOUR DEVELOPED BICEPS. Gimme ten weeks. I'll be all over that.

You know, I LOVE that: I just wanna read them all excited about getting fucked and not feeling powerless at all. I mean, you're getting fucked! And someone is having a fine time also, with you! I don't know, I get pretty excited over that. I'm like, "you want to be in me? AAHHA, AWESOME, I WILL ALLOW THIS! You'll like it! ANd so will I!"

Yeah, bottoms just wanna have fun. You write it, and I will read it, that is a PROMISE.

I'm like, "you want to be in me? AAHHA, AWESOME, I WILL ALLOW THIS! You'll like it! ANd so will I!"

Hehehe. I *so* almost wrote something like that in a different thread at a friend's lj. All I can say is, all the people we sleep with must be having a damn good time becase we are AWESOME women. :)

About the bottom thing...Somehow I prefer seeing Karl (in the LOTR RPS fandom) and Jensen (or Dean) as a bottom... Don't know why. Nothing wrong with them topping, but it's just... Gah, can't explain it :(. Anyway, I only hate it when they write the bottom as a big girl :S. Can't even read about Orlando when they do that! *sighs and shakes head*

For some reason I don't really like boyish looks. I mean, look at Karl :P. He's my main obsession, so if you don't mind, I'll use him as an example ;). Never really liked, for example, Matt Damon, or Orlando, etc...

I very much respect the idea of manly men bottoming. I just wish we saw more of it in fanfic and less MarySue-itis and OOCness.

I think I'm just such a switch that I want everybody to get a turn on top. ;)

I very much respect the idea of manly men bottoming. I just wish we saw more of it in fanfic and less MarySue-itis and OOCness.
I can only agree to this :). Don't see it nearly enough... *pouts*

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