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Jul. 31st, 2003 11:59 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
salixbabylonMusings on consent and rape that I had to type in but probably shouldn't be read by anyone else ever. I just needed to get it out of my head. TMI and incoherency abound.
So I'm reading this fic with Harry being dominant and Draco being very submissive (can't remember the title, but it's not really all that important), and it brings up the question/thought of when is rape rape, at what point in consensual BDSM does rape become rape? Only if it starts out as non-consensual? Is there a crossover point, where it becomes consensual or is that just a fantasy? If someone is saying no but their body is saying yes, and they didn't want to be there, and you're doing it against their will, isn't it still rape even if they enjoy it? Even if they come? Isn't what consents your mind, not your body? Does you body really not respond? I think there must be some overlap there. It seems like it goes both ways. That if you're truly being violated against your will, then you're not turned on, but I do think there's some room for error and confusion there. Just because your body is turned on doesn't mean anything; sometimes fear can do that, make you respond in ways that seem like arousal, that are arousal, but... aren't.
Anyway. I've just been thinking more about consent and rape and control and submission and what is consent. At what point do you give consent? Before things reach the bedroom? Can you change your mind? Of course you can change your mind, it's not like you signed a contract. Is it just a fantasy that if someone rapes you, you'll crawl back for more? It seems like such a widespread fantasy, and it's one that I don't think is just fictional. I think it must be a fantasy that people completely like it and are free of emotional manipulation when they make the choice to return, but I think it very likely that once you've been violated like that you probably want to pretend that you weren't, that you agreed to it, that you liked it. Stockholm Syndrome, anymore? I don't know... So really, how did I feel? I never liked being pinned down, I felt like there was too much cruelty in X's strength. And with Y, I guess I felt like it had nothing to do with me, I was just thing for him to use, this pretty body that got him all worked up and he needed release and I was at fault for getting him like that and had an obligation. Which was my own stupid fault for being an idiot, of course but... Did I consent? Yes. Was I manipulated? Sort of. Guilt tripped? Certainly. Would he see it that way? Probably not. I don't know. Blech. Confusing.
And I know DUH these are really painfully obvious questions and answers, but I've noticed over the years this horrible thing, that sometimes what I KNOW in my head isn't what I KNOW in my body and soul. My brain knows what's right and wrong. Things are often more confusing on a more visceral level , and I wonder which is more "right" and true. Weren't things supposed to become more clear with age, not more murky?
I do like fics that press my buttons and make me think about difficult stuff. Too bad I never manage to think anything coherent.
I like that fanfiction makes me think, often more than actual fiction. Unfortunately, I often do not like -what- it makes me think.
So I'm reading this fic with Harry being dominant and Draco being very submissive (can't remember the title, but it's not really all that important), and it brings up the question/thought of when is rape rape, at what point in consensual BDSM does rape become rape? Only if it starts out as non-consensual? Is there a crossover point, where it becomes consensual or is that just a fantasy? If someone is saying no but their body is saying yes, and they didn't want to be there, and you're doing it against their will, isn't it still rape even if they enjoy it? Even if they come? Isn't what consents your mind, not your body? Does you body really not respond? I think there must be some overlap there. It seems like it goes both ways. That if you're truly being violated against your will, then you're not turned on, but I do think there's some room for error and confusion there. Just because your body is turned on doesn't mean anything; sometimes fear can do that, make you respond in ways that seem like arousal, that are arousal, but... aren't.
Anyway. I've just been thinking more about consent and rape and control and submission and what is consent. At what point do you give consent? Before things reach the bedroom? Can you change your mind? Of course you can change your mind, it's not like you signed a contract. Is it just a fantasy that if someone rapes you, you'll crawl back for more? It seems like such a widespread fantasy, and it's one that I don't think is just fictional. I think it must be a fantasy that people completely like it and are free of emotional manipulation when they make the choice to return, but I think it very likely that once you've been violated like that you probably want to pretend that you weren't, that you agreed to it, that you liked it. Stockholm Syndrome, anymore? I don't know... So really, how did I feel? I never liked being pinned down, I felt like there was too much cruelty in X's strength. And with Y, I guess I felt like it had nothing to do with me, I was just thing for him to use, this pretty body that got him all worked up and he needed release and I was at fault for getting him like that and had an obligation. Which was my own stupid fault for being an idiot, of course but... Did I consent? Yes. Was I manipulated? Sort of. Guilt tripped? Certainly. Would he see it that way? Probably not. I don't know. Blech. Confusing.
And I know DUH these are really painfully obvious questions and answers, but I've noticed over the years this horrible thing, that sometimes what I KNOW in my head isn't what I KNOW in my body and soul. My brain knows what's right and wrong. Things are often more confusing on a more visceral level , and I wonder which is more "right" and true. Weren't things supposed to become more clear with age, not more murky?
I do like fics that press my buttons and make me think about difficult stuff. Too bad I never manage to think anything coherent.
I like that fanfiction makes me think, often more than actual fiction. Unfortunately, I often do not like -what- it makes me think.
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no subject
Date: 2003-07-31 01:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-08-03 01:06 am (UTC)I guess they just makes me think about my own issues surrounding consent and power and control, which can be uncomfortable.
It's intriguing to me how deeply psychological many fanfics are when, as a genre, it's not really taken very seriously specifically because it's fanfiction. I actually think I've read many more "shallow" pieces of original fic than fanfic. The quality of writing and thought-provoking-ness amazes me.
(God it's late - sorry I'm incoherent. You know it's bad when I'm making up words and every thought ends with ...)