how to write het

[salixbabylon]

So I have these two bunnies and they're both het. And every time I try to write some of them, it's so very obviously just me wanting to fuck whatever character or actor the female in question is paired with.

Even when I write it from the male POV, it's still a Mary Sue.

(Of course, then I started freaking out that everything I write, I'm the protagonist for, and maybe Orli and Ewan and Harry and Remus are Marty Stus and I'm just a horrible hack writer and so I'm just going to dam that stream of thought because it's totally not helping.)

So I ask you, who have written het - how the bloody hell do you write het that's not Mary Sueish? Thoughts? Advice?

Help!

Comments

[mellacita.livejournal.com]

Well, I would say this: Mary Sues may always self-insertions, but all self-insertions are not Mary Sues.

Mary Sues, based on the orginal meaning, are annoyingly perfect, with no flaws. They save the day because they are way smarter than anyone else, even if they have no experience. They have unusually shaped eyes and exotic names. They can cook dinner for twelve and repair a Star Destroyer with their bare hands, and can play guitar or piano and sing in such a way as to enchant all around them. In other words, they make you sick. In fanfic they are often the long lost brother sister daughter cousin of jack Sparrow, Legolas, Mulder, Spike, Luke Skywalker, or Obi Wan Kenobi.

I can't imagine you writing anything like that, so go for the het I say!

[salixbabylon.livejournal.com]

I guess, after reading all of the comments and thinking about it a bit more, that I have come to see blatant self-insertion as cheating. And if it's in my head, it's obvious to *me* the extent to which the writing is self-insertion/cheating/bad. I suppose this is where it's good that my betas come in and tell me what they think. ;)

I guess my characters aren't Mary Sues, by the definition you and Jassy use. Which is quite a relief, actually.

Thank you for helping me sort this all out!

[naotalba.livejournal.com]

Well, I certainly can spot myself in my writing - I always seem to write Will Turner as me, for instance. That is just the way writing fan fiction goes, I think. I can't think about anyone having sex with Johnny Depp without wanting to be in their place.

I would say, if you are concerned about it coming across as Mary-Sueish, make sure the sex is as imperfect and messy as possible.

[salixbabylon.livejournal.com]

Hehehe! You are very right - a character I can't picture myself as, even a little bit, is a character I have a really difficult time writing (which is the sort of thing I struggle with a lot in the "I'll write you any character you want" type writing memes).

I like the idea of messy sex being the anti-Mary Sue. *g*

[jassyskie.livejournal.com]

Okay, take a deep breath. Better? *hugs*

You're not writing a Mary Sue. You're too good of a writer for that, so relax. Just the substitution of a part of the writer's self into a story does not make the character a Mary Sue. (I'm about to launch into a short version of my Mary Sue rant, just to warn you.]

Take a good look at a lot of the pro fic out there. See the number of "larger than life" female characters? The ones who are the best at what they do, rise to every challenge, beat the crap out of the men in the room, and still manage to make it home to cook dinner (or at least are a whiz at ordering out)? Lara Croft comes to mind. So does Mrs. Smith. So does almost every heroine in every romance novel. Even Janet Evanovich's Stephanie Plum does her job better than most of us would. Even ordinary characters have to have that larger than life moment at the end in order to beat the antagonist or it's just not interesting fiction.

So... Mary Sue. I hate that fandom (any fandom, pick one and it applies) has mislabeled strong female characters, any female character who bears any resemblance at all to the writer, or almost any OFC as a Mary Sue. A Mary Sue is someone ridiculously over the top who comes in to an established canon situation and out-does every one of the established characters to the point she makes the established characters uncharacteristically weak or ineffectual. Wesley Crusher was a Marty Sue; whenever he solved a problem, he made the other characters look weak and stupid and unfit for duty.

Just an OFC does not a Mary Sue make. That goes for het erotica too. Read some published het. Are those original female characters Mary Sues? I doubt it.

As for putting ourselves into a character, well, we all put part of ourselves into the characters we write. If you can't or don't put yourself in the shoes of your character, how are you going to write what that character experiences and feels? That's how cardboard characters are born.

Okay, I think I'm done with my mini-rant. I don't know if any of that was helpful, but that's the way I look at it. Write a well-rounded character and she won't be a Mary Sue. And if you're not writing about a guy you'd want to have sex with, why would your character?

[mellacita.livejournal.com]

Haha, I was going to mention Wesley Crusher too. ;)

[jassyskie.livejournal.com]

Man, he was the quintessential Marty Sue. A child prodigy is one thing, but the canon characters should have been able to handle the things good old Wesley solved for them. :P He does make a really good example of what not to do though. ;)

[salixbabylon.livejournal.com]

I loved your Mary Sue "rant" - thank you sharing it with me.

I think I'd somehow picked up the notion that self-insertion is a sloppy shortcut to developing real characters... But that's how I write, always. If I can't connect with the characters, I can't write them. I suppose it took trying to write a female character to bring this all out to the forefront and make me deal with my assumptions.

Thank for the perspective about other female characters in literature and erotica - it's very helpful to remember that there is a wide world of writing out there, and lots of very different female protagonists who are NOT Mary Sues. And that my chances of unintentionally writing a MS is pretty slim. ;) *hug*

[jassyskie.livejournal.com]

Is self-insertion a sloppy shortcut? I don't think so, because even if a writer puts herself into a story, it's not really *her* but a character who's more than what the writer is, especially with a writer of your caliber. Once you start making changes to that character, even if she is based on yourself, the character is no longer you.

There are lots of profic writers (among them some bestsellers) whose series characters are idealized versions of themselves. There's nothing wrong with that. Writing fiction is all about telling lies but wrapping them in enough truths to make them believeable. Starting with the person you know best (yourself) and building a character from there is going to make for a believeable character.

I think we fanfic writers (*especially* slash writers) do ourselves a disservice by labeling any strong OFC as a Mary Sue. It puts us at a disadvantage when we venture into original fic because we're so scared of a female character going over the top or trying to base a female character on ourselves to any extent that we bend over backwards the other way and create characters who are artificial and flat.

Yeah, I guess I'm still ranting. Just thump me if you're getting tired of hearing it. ;)

*hugs*

[salixbabylon.livejournal.com]

Hehe! I'm never tired of it. I guess I haven't thought about this sort of thing much, about writing and how it's done and why and when it goes bad and when it's fine. For all the meta that goes around fandom, there's not all that much discussion of the "craft" of writing.

And frankly, I stopped reading almost all printed fiction about 5 years ago. I've totally forgotten what a normal female protagonist is like. I should refresh my memory.

This would have been a good discussion for roomtoimprove. *sigh* next time I'll start it there.

[nverland]

I write 99.9% of my het with no female names specifically because if I did you can bet her name'd be Carol and Viggo would be firmly nestled in there. The few that are named are still me, I write any and all from my own perspective and either change the names, or put myself in my male characters position. It's only a Mary Sue if you're actually replacing a character with yourself.
Siad before, saying again, you write-we read and worship.

[salixbabylon.livejournal.com]

Hehehe! I think there's also certainly something to be said for writing fic that entertains you, the writer, whether it's self-insertion or Mary Sue-ish or whatever. I mean, some fantasies are just really hot and need to be written down and shared, you know? ;)

*smooch* Thanks for always being so unbelievably encouraging!

[the-little-owl.livejournal.com]

The point is to do some character development before you alctually write the story.
As others already said, a Mary Sue is a person too good to be true. Give your character a few flaws (or a characteristical big one), make said flaw even damage/endanger the relationship with your adored hero for a while, and nobody will accuse you to write a Mary Sue.

[salixbabylon.livejournal.com]

GOod point about character development. I suppose since the stories in question are essentially PWPs, it was easier for me to see the female characters as out of context - since there isn't much context at all aside from "a few things happen and then X fucks Y in location Z."

I like you tip for avoiding a MS though - and flaws do make everyhting so much mroe interesting. I'll be sure to think of that while I'm writing. :)

[elfscribe5.livejournal.com]

Right, exactly what those other folks said. You are too good a writer to write a Mary Sue. I find it amusing in fandom that we are so used to writing from a male pov that we flinch away from a woman's pov, which should be easier. Also, the vehemence with which all these women denounce writing Mary Sues, the disgust for which seems to extend to any strong female character, that it makes me wonder if we are a misogynistic bunch. I have no doubt that your characters, whoever they are, will have depth of personality and work as characters, not superhuman self-insertions. Lay it on us baby.

[salixbabylon.livejournal.com]

I think you're totally right - I suspect there is something very internally misogynistic about the anti-het and anti-female sentiments expressed in the slash community. Which I myself am guilty of. There's more to be uncovered in this line of thought, perhaps later...

As I said in another comment, I think the fact that the fics in question are PWPs exacerbated the problem in my head -- there *is* no character development, really, good or bad. But I will rely on my betas to set me straight and try to learn the lesson that not all female characters, even if they are somewhat based on myself, are Mary Sues.

You guys are all so awesome and reassuring. *hug* :)